New Chilean lawmaker does an Attack on Titan salute after making her first vote (and yes it's an explicit reference because she's wearing an Attack on Titan shield pin too) https://t.co/kRaY0sxyuH— Populism Updates (@PopulismUpdates) March 11, 2022
99% of the world was ruled by nazis, many of them lived in literal ghettos who are also doomed to be rumbled
What?
Literally every other nation was going with the plan to eradicate them
What the actual fuck? If the US somehow became the world government, that would not make it good to slaughter every single person in the entire world except for people in DPRK or palestine.
It just doesn't. That's like saying the only way for true Denazification of germany post WWII would be to kill every single german person, because Nazi country! I also think it's nearly indistinguisable from the argument people use to justify the atomic bombing of 2 japanese cities because "they supported the empire!" fucking SURE
Also, if we're taking the logic of the fictional world into account, uh, some people are literally walking nukes, and that is DEFINITELY a real thing to be concerned about. That's not racism, some people are literally walking nukes
The argument should be that they should just kill the 9 or 10 people that have titan powers, because evidently if they die without passing it on that's just it, and then there simply wouldn't be an issue anymore
But instead you're here justifying a hypothetical 'imperiled and surrounded ethostate' doing a heckin genocide because thats just the only way! Even in the logic of the world, fucking NO! You can like the show or the story for its own sake, but no leftist should ever justify this garbage
I cannot fucking believe I'm having this argument on this website. I'm floored.
The manga/show goes through decent lengths to show the hatred is universal even among common folk through generations of propaganda. Even the eldians in the ghettos are made to hate themselves. Dont get me wrong I get that its contrived anime bs to where the situation even came up to make genocide a viable choice but as fucked as it is that the eldians in marley get fucked I dont see what option paradise had in their absurd situation written for them. The entire world forced their hands after they attempted diplomatic stuff so its either die to racist nazis or live and kill innocent people who prop up the institutes in the crossfire. Shitty options but again I just dont see how anyone can justify an entire race allowing itself to be wiped out because the attackers would have too many civilian casualties.
If the US became the world government and convinced everyone else that we should eradicate Africans or something and they have a way to defend themselves that involves everyone but them dying then more power to them. I cant believe youre making excuses for the aggressors here. If they dont want to die all they have to do is not be racist fucks who want to kill others. The other side doesnt have the luxury of a choice as they were actively going to be exterminated and acted in self defense.
Yes the titan powers would be concerning as fuck but they planned to eradicate the entire island before they knew they had a single shifter there. The existance of the wall titans was mildly concerning to them but at the time it was seen as a non threat and the only reason they wanted to go attack paradise was for resources with a mix of generational hate.
In the lore if a shifter dies the titan is randomly passed along to a "child of ymir" at birth so even if they did that theyd have no idea where it would pop up in next so it wasnt seen as a viable option. They two alternative they played around with was to turn historia in to a baby making factory but that was only estimated to buy them 50 years and then theyd be in the same spot. If they could jsut kill the shifters and itd be over thatd obviously be ideal. The other was zekes euthanasia plan which would have stopped shifters but they still would have been exterminated. Their options were to let the other nations kill them or kill the other nations.
Im willing to listen but can someone actually explain for once why, if we assume genocide is truly the only way for this story, that its wrong in their situation? Let me be clear that I do see this through the lens of a work of fiction and my opinions of what they did in AoT might not reflect how Id feel about the real world but with that aside every explanation just boils down to genocide is wrong no matter what so the innocent people should die and the nazis should win because less nazis die and thats good? I just cant wrap my head around thinking its ok for an oppressed minority to be wiped out to protect a society of ethnic cleansing fucks no matter what the numbers of them are. If in some alt history the native Americans eradicated the white setters for trying to kill them and take their land would we really file that under wrong or would it have been justified given the situation.
The manga/show goes through decent lengths to show the hatred is universal even among common folk through generations of propaganda. Even the eldians in the ghettos are made to hate themselves.
This is a direct description of what capitalism/ imperialism does to people in the imperial core and to marginalized people
its either die to racist nazis or live and kill innocent people who prop up the institutes in the crossfire
"there were no innocent japanese civilians killed by the bombs, they all propped up the empire by contributing to production"
if we assume genocide is truly the only way for this story, that its wrong in their situation?
that is a fucking bold assumption, and also Y E S its wrong
This is a bad bad take, and I do not have the fortitude to endure more of it
Can you explain why its such a bad take though? I get that genocide is bad, nobody is actually arguing in favor of it but in the absurd manga they set up a scenario where it was the only option. Other options were tossed around and the explained why they wouldnt work or itd be a big gamble. In the end saying they are wrong for defending themselves seems fucked. My argument isnt that genocide is good or right its that in the manga its justified by their position because they are acting in full self defense. Other innocents dying is a tragedy but again what are they supposed to do. Die and then the manga ends with the facists clinking Champaign glasses together for successfully wiping out a race they didnt like? I get that people think its such a reactionary take but I just cant sit right with a race of people who havent done shit to anyone being wiped out because of their race. I just dont give enough of a shit about a world where its so nornmalized and universal to hate them that there was no opposition to wiping them out from anywhere else.
but I just cant sit right with a race of people who haven't done shit to anyone being wiped out because of their race. Ruling class
yeah me either
Maybe the plan should have been to shatter the fascist hegemony and liberate the world by demilitarizing the nazis
nah, that sounds complicated and difficult, lets just give up because the nazi rulers wouldn't negotiate and blanket the world in nukes, I mean hey! we tried!!
Ideally ya. But how would Paradise go about doing that in their short time they had from knowing about the outside worlds intention till the rumbling? Theyre one island against multiple nations who all want them dead and who all are decades if not centuries ahead technologically in certain ways. Also you need willing people. They never really show the common folk having any disagreements or tension with Marleys government. Only the eldians in the ghettos and many of them were pro Marley too. Even if they could instill a revolution with the eldians and with the help of the titans they have I dont see how you topple every countries governments and change the minds of their citizens before they go through with their attack that was a month or two away. They tried with attending that summit thing and pleading a case for peace with the help of the Azumabito family and the entire world told them to fuck off and get ready to die.
Do not think that if Eren could literally kill the world with his god powers he couldn't just completely obliterate the millitaries of every nation on earth and then continue to do that until everyone surrendered?
99% of the world was ruled by nazis, many of them lived in literal ghettos who are also doomed to be rumbled
What?
What the actual fuck? If the US somehow became the world government, that would not make it good to slaughter every single person in the entire world except for people in DPRK or palestine.
It just doesn't. That's like saying the only way for true Denazification of germany post WWII would be to kill every single german person, because Nazi country! I also think it's nearly indistinguisable from the argument people use to justify the atomic bombing of 2 japanese cities because "they supported the empire!" fucking SURE
Also, if we're taking the logic of the fictional world into account, uh, some people are literally walking nukes, and that is DEFINITELY a real thing to be concerned about. That's not racism, some people are literally walking nukes
The argument should be that they should just kill the 9 or 10 people that have titan powers, because evidently if they die without passing it on that's just it, and then there simply wouldn't be an issue anymore
But instead you're here justifying a hypothetical 'imperiled and surrounded ethostate' doing a heckin genocide because thats just the only way! Even in the logic of the world, fucking NO! You can like the show or the story for its own sake, but no leftist should ever justify this garbage
I cannot fucking believe I'm having this argument on this website. I'm floored.
The manga/show goes through decent lengths to show the hatred is universal even among common folk through generations of propaganda. Even the eldians in the ghettos are made to hate themselves. Dont get me wrong I get that its contrived anime bs to where the situation even came up to make genocide a viable choice but as fucked as it is that the eldians in marley get fucked I dont see what option paradise had in their absurd situation written for them. The entire world forced their hands after they attempted diplomatic stuff so its either die to racist nazis or live and kill innocent people who prop up the institutes in the crossfire. Shitty options but again I just dont see how anyone can justify an entire race allowing itself to be wiped out because the attackers would have too many civilian casualties.
If the US became the world government and convinced everyone else that we should eradicate Africans or something and they have a way to defend themselves that involves everyone but them dying then more power to them. I cant believe youre making excuses for the aggressors here. If they dont want to die all they have to do is not be racist fucks who want to kill others. The other side doesnt have the luxury of a choice as they were actively going to be exterminated and acted in self defense.
Yes the titan powers would be concerning as fuck but they planned to eradicate the entire island before they knew they had a single shifter there. The existance of the wall titans was mildly concerning to them but at the time it was seen as a non threat and the only reason they wanted to go attack paradise was for resources with a mix of generational hate.
In the lore if a shifter dies the titan is randomly passed along to a "child of ymir" at birth so even if they did that theyd have no idea where it would pop up in next so it wasnt seen as a viable option. They two alternative they played around with was to turn historia in to a baby making factory but that was only estimated to buy them 50 years and then theyd be in the same spot. If they could jsut kill the shifters and itd be over thatd obviously be ideal. The other was zekes euthanasia plan which would have stopped shifters but they still would have been exterminated. Their options were to let the other nations kill them or kill the other nations. Im willing to listen but can someone actually explain for once why, if we assume genocide is truly the only way for this story, that its wrong in their situation? Let me be clear that I do see this through the lens of a work of fiction and my opinions of what they did in AoT might not reflect how Id feel about the real world but with that aside every explanation just boils down to genocide is wrong no matter what so the innocent people should die and the nazis should win because less nazis die and thats good? I just cant wrap my head around thinking its ok for an oppressed minority to be wiped out to protect a society of ethnic cleansing fucks no matter what the numbers of them are. If in some alt history the native Americans eradicated the white setters for trying to kill them and take their land would we really file that under wrong or would it have been justified given the situation.
This is a direct description of what capitalism/ imperialism does to people in the imperial core and to marginalized people
"there were no innocent japanese civilians killed by the bombs, they all propped up the empire by contributing to production"
that is a fucking bold assumption, and also Y E S its wrong
This is a bad bad take, and I do not have the fortitude to endure more of it
Can you explain why its such a bad take though? I get that genocide is bad, nobody is actually arguing in favor of it but in the absurd manga they set up a scenario where it was the only option. Other options were tossed around and the explained why they wouldnt work or itd be a big gamble. In the end saying they are wrong for defending themselves seems fucked. My argument isnt that genocide is good or right its that in the manga its justified by their position because they are acting in full self defense. Other innocents dying is a tragedy but again what are they supposed to do. Die and then the manga ends with the facists clinking Champaign glasses together for successfully wiping out a race they didnt like? I get that people think its such a reactionary take but I just cant sit right with a race of people who havent done shit to anyone being wiped out because of their race. I just dont give enough of a shit about a world where its so nornmalized and universal to hate them that there was no opposition to wiping them out from anywhere else.
yeah me either
Maybe the plan should have been to shatter the fascist hegemony and liberate the world by demilitarizing the nazis
nah, that sounds complicated and difficult, lets just give up because the nazi rulers wouldn't negotiate and blanket the world in nukes, I mean hey! we tried!!
Ideally ya. But how would Paradise go about doing that in their short time they had from knowing about the outside worlds intention till the rumbling? Theyre one island against multiple nations who all want them dead and who all are decades if not centuries ahead technologically in certain ways. Also you need willing people. They never really show the common folk having any disagreements or tension with Marleys government. Only the eldians in the ghettos and many of them were pro Marley too. Even if they could instill a revolution with the eldians and with the help of the titans they have I dont see how you topple every countries governments and change the minds of their citizens before they go through with their attack that was a month or two away. They tried with attending that summit thing and pleading a case for peace with the help of the Azumabito family and the entire world told them to fuck off and get ready to die.
Do not think that if Eren could literally kill the world with his god powers he couldn't just completely obliterate the millitaries of every nation on earth and then continue to do that until everyone surrendered?