Specifically on the veganism issue, I was absolutely appalled to see a majority of the website clam up into chud tier “dae bacon mmmm” when a vegan actually decided to speak up for once. Animal liberation is intertwined with leftism, but yet again, the moment someone points out something you can improve upon, you immediately attack it instead of trying to improve yourself.
Shit-stirrers from VCJ show up, and within a week the community is at each other's throats.
Being called a rapist for drinking milk or a nazi for eating meat is going to piss people off.
Animal liberation is intertwined with leftism, but yet again, the moment someone points out something you can improve upon, you immediately attack it instead of trying to improve yourself.
This is not true though? Unless you think that people like Castro and Mao were "fake" commies, there are plenty of ways that people can be leftist without fulfilling every single personal notch. Heck I'd even go so far as to say that leftist is such a broad term as to be meaningless for any argument like that. I'd even wager that just due to the time period they were living in, people like Marx and Engels had some pretty shit social takes somewhere, but I wouldn't call them fakers either.
Maybe for you, your leftist beliefs are personally intertwined with veganism, in the same way that racial liberation and queer liberation are intertwined with my personal ones, but I wouldn't go so far as to say all of it extrapolates out perfectly to other people.
This is the sort of hostility that I've mentioned in other comments, with people saying that vegans are libs or that non-vegans are libs, when in reality communists and leftists all throughout history have been really diverse in political opinion, even on social issues.
Maybe I'm misreading but I don't see how what you said relates to the bit you quoted at all. How does saying "animal liberation is intertwined with leftism" mean you're not left wing unless you're vegan?
I agree that this idea that "leftist" is like some identity that you either are or are you aren't is so toxic honestly but there's a difference between focusing on other areas of leftism because you're not as passionate about animal liberation and straight up rejecting the idea that it should be a goal at all.
I don't think it's controversial to say that a core part of leftism is opposing exploitation and suffering. The rhetoric used by vegans in the past few days has been inflammatory, occasionally racist and honestly useless but it has drawn out a lot of the tired old arguments against animal liberation that I didn't expect to see in a supposedly leftist space and it's been really disappointing on all sides.
Everyone talks past each other on this site it's fucking exhausting.
Everyone talks past each other on this site it’s fucking exhausting.
stop for a second to think about it from other perspectives challenge
One one hand, this fucking sucks - you were clearly an excellent dev and a great mod
on the other hand...
I don’t want to make a super long post about this, but I do want all of you to take some self crit. Because all of you need it. Between this shitfest, and the shitfests before it, this entire site needs some massive introspection before I will come close to calling this place “leftist”. Pronouns? Trans rights? Veganism? Sexism? You all do the bare minimum when it comes to making others feel barely accepted, and then refuse to learn more when someone gives critique.
Of particular note is the number of people who tried to exploit BIPOC and Indigenous culture to deflect criticism from vegans.
:bruh-moment:
if only you fucking people could apply your own words and actions to racism or anything beyond what affects the admin team directly lmaoThis is the first goodbye post I’ve read and haven’t felt bad about.
I mean if you think it's our fault that the site suddenly caught on fire in the last week, and not the VCJ people, I don't know what to tell you.
As if we never struggled about anything before and this wasn't the perfect storm. Okay. 🙄
"bloodmouth"? They actually say that?
Vegans have got to be one of the least sympathetic victim groups out there. All they want to do is make the world a better place, and they can't think of any other way to do it than by being complete assholes.
It's the disgust reaction. A disgust reaction happens when you see one of your sacred values violated. It's why conservatives get so angry about seeing the US flag burned or seeing human poo lying in the streets. Anything meat triggers the disgust reaction and then any reaction is justified. It's sad, veganism could have taken off if they had made it cool.
Of particular note is the number of people who tried to exploit BIPOC and Indigenous culture to deflect criticism from vegans.
TFW when I exploit my own culture to deflect (not argue against) criticism from vegans. Me and weenuk is in the same boat, it's getting pretty fucking old dealing with people comparing consuming animal products, which is the only food that's available to my people, to fucking aztec human sacrifices.
Jeez I'm done with these dumb "I am big important user who is leaving and here is why you should care and it is your fault". Cool just leave if you feel like it.
Ok, I guess it was important, but why does there always have to be a big drama around these things? I don't even understand what the latest drama was. I didn't even notice it. I saw some vegan struggle sessions for a couple days and that's it. Apparently it was stuff in the struggle session com and it had something to do with VCJ. Ok, cool, why is that important? Why should I care that 20 people got in a thread and started fighting over veganism? I understand feeling stressed as a mod, hell I left the site for a few weeks because it was getting weird and sad, but you can just quit without doing this whole "look at me" thing. All it does it generate more drama.
I don't disagree. There's a lot of overly dramatic exits on this site, though it's usually been users and not mods/devs.
I do think this outgoing message was poor though but that is just my opinion.
The idea is to make people feel guilty about driving away such a virtuous user. It's not that this user is leaving - no, we did this to her and forced her into a corner where she had no choice. You'd better change your behavior!
@dsIIplayer , we meet again. I shall not be satisfied until that emoji is reading a red book
I know you worked your ass off on the software end of things for this site. Thanks for all that you did.
Doesn't want to make a super long post
As I have to keep scrolling and scrolling.
really sad to hear this and I hope you reconsider. I appreciate everything you do for the site.
Thank you for the work you’ve done. I peek in on the git now and then and know that you’ve given a lot to us.
