now we need to know if she is an eren apologist
Anyone who is a fan of that show/manga gives off reactionary vibes, if not just fully fash
I like it despite it's flaws and am on this site, so
“¯_(ツ)_/¯“
I mean, I don't think it's an absolute that if you like it you're a bad person or anything, it's just sus if someone is like a big fan or super into it, until further investigation at least. Same as if someone was like "yeah, my favorite author is Mishima"
I got into it as it aired (so, like 10 years ago?), the unpredictability and "seriousness" of the stakes kept me wanting to know more about it. Then the political intrigue happened, and by the point they did the big reveal I was too invested and curious to see where all that would lead.
It's ideology is suspect at best, but I think it does have some good character moments, and the author manages to show the despair of war pretty well in a couple chapters.
I've criticized it's barely-mask-on fascist ideology before but the treats havers can't handle that. I've heard everything from "it's nonpolitical, the curtains are fucking blue" to "if you see fascism there, you might actually be the fascist."
:desolate:
I love the show, but there's no excusing the fact that it's essentially premised on a reality where Jewish analogues are literally capable of becoming monsters and also spent the 2000 years before the antisemites showed up oppressing every other people on earth.
What's interesting about it is that they are a mix of Jewish Holocaust imagery and German (or Japanese, or any ex-fash country) desire to minimise and distance themselves from the crimes of their ancestors. They're saying "can't you see that we are the real victims here?"
In doing so, they make it seem like the crimes of their ancestors were justified.
I view AoT as posing a world where no one ever comes up with communism. Just reactionary forces learning nothing and getting everyone killed.
It's hard to find anime that doesn't give off absolute reactionary vibes...
And people who don't know anything but literally objectifying women, and therefore the shows cater to their gaze to make them buy overpriced figurines.
Not that hard. There's a lot of reactionary stuff out there, but there's a lot of really good stuff too. And if you expand it to manga and other anime-adjacent artforms there's even more. Even more shit as well, but that's to be expected.
They should test prospective politicians ao their pop culture knowledge and bar them from ruling if they seem even marginally in the know.
That only cause problems otherwise.
I even remember one of them from a dunk tank post months ago
I don't think that's healthy comrade
Is this place not pro rumbling?
A small country with no knowledge of other humans is hated by the outside world and the outside world is planning to exterminate them (after they've been torturing them with human eating monsters for decades and live in ghettos on the mainland) Their hatred stems from the belief that they are evil when really a young girl was raped and a made a slave to a tyrannical king 2k years ago.
Small country eventually finds out about the rest of the world and how they want to kill them all. They try peaceful talks but it fails and they're outright told the world is moving ahead with exterminating them. Person from this small country has a way to prevent their country (that again didn't do shit to anyone) from being exterminated by racists. He uses it. Libs cry that he's a bad guy for not letting racist xenophobes kill and enslave his entire ethnicity because apparently killing too many Nazis makes it worse than killing a smaller number of innocent not Nazis in their mind.
Yes yeagerists are protrayed pretty fashy in the manga and they are but the only mistake made with the rumbling was going 80% and not 100. Yams is just a shitty writer who can't end a story.
Also I don't want to hear any "revolutions are wrong because innocent people will die" adjacent crap.
Yeah, no, genociding 99% of the world is always a fucking awful thing to do
What the actual fuck?
Seriously, what the fuck
Edit: You think the mistake they made was only doing a PARTIAL complete genocide of all of humanity?
THAT WAS THE MISTAKE?!?!!
Do you think it would be morally acceptable for DPRK to kill every single person in the entire world except for themselves?
You made me wish this site has downvotes, how could you do this
The real mistake was wasting time reading a reactionary manga that influences people to think this
The real mistake was wasting time reading a reactionary manga that influences people to think this
Fuck, what's the term for that kind of writing, where the narrative makes some abhorrent position the actual correct response given its highly contrived scenario that was crafted specifically to make that position correct? I think it's slightly more generic than that, where the story is just making some shitty perspective true and correct in-universe, but I feel like that applies to shit like this or how Warhammer 40K's narrative explicitly makes the Imperium the lesser evil because everything else is some predatory cosmic horror and even just thinking the wrong thoughts can make daemons appear and eat everyone.
Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of, I was just misremembering it as the sort of preceding part where a problematic work that internally justifies itself through its control of its own narrative is created in the first place.
I'm watching the anime as it comes out. Like, I'm fucking furious that I'm watching it and I hate it
but it's such a well made anime I can't tear myself away, but I'm fucking seething the whole time
I remember the first time watching it when it came out, sitting in a dark corner of my room and high as fuck. The titans and giant troll things, they freaked the fuck out of me and I was absolutely blown away by the Lynchian level creepiness. I stopped watching it after the second season, I think. Got Anime as fuck.
What solidified it for me was when Eren seemingly fucking died in like episode 5. I thought I had actually been tricked by an anime and Armin was secretly actually the protagonist all along, but then...
Same problem as Promised Neverland where it has incredible vibes in the first half then shits the bed with the genre pivot
You should check out Ranking of Kings. I hope I'm not setting you on the same path again, but it's been a delight so far aside from the usual anime thing of monarchism
Especially the episode that came out yesterday which might be my favorite episode of any anime ever
Yeah, I'm not big on anime but I gave it a shot and really liked it at first. Then the genre pivot happens and you're like, 'yup, it's anime alright'. You're not going to get some paradigm shifting show, you'll have the same Asian soap opera tropes with the cute bunny talk, constant crying, and absolutely inane dialogue.
I actually stopped watching after season 2 or 3, then heard about the cluster fuck fasho ending and thought I'd watch it and dunk on it, but it overpowered me with excellent direction pacing and voice acting
dont forget the "she actually loved her rapist" plotline and all the incel eren shit.
Why? If 99% of the world were nazis and wanted to ethnically cleanse a race for no reason why the fuck would it be bad for them all to die? What is this lib ass shit defending fascists.. In this fictional universe it is 100% justified and self defense. Literally every other nation was going with the plan to eradicate them making the whole world a fair target of self defense. Again if you are an innocent nation and the entire world is going to kill you over racism and false beliefs and you magically have a way to stop it and defend yourselves you do it. Especially against people equivalent to nazis. People here are literally arguing that they should let the evil nazi like people kill all the minorities because too many nazis will die otherwise.
99% of the world was ruled by nazis, many of them lived in literal ghettos who are also doomed to be rumbled
What?
Literally every other nation was going with the plan to eradicate them
What the actual fuck? If the US somehow became the world government, that would not make it good to slaughter every single person in the entire world except for people in DPRK or palestine.
It just doesn't. That's like saying the only way for true Denazification of germany post WWII would be to kill every single german person, because Nazi country! I also think it's nearly indistinguisable from the argument people use to justify the atomic bombing of 2 japanese cities because "they supported the empire!" fucking SURE
Also, if we're taking the logic of the fictional world into account, uh, some people are literally walking nukes, and that is DEFINITELY a real thing to be concerned about. That's not racism, some people are literally walking nukes
The argument should be that they should just kill the 9 or 10 people that have titan powers, because evidently if they die without passing it on that's just it, and then there simply wouldn't be an issue anymore
But instead you're here justifying a hypothetical 'imperiled and surrounded ethostate' doing a heckin genocide because thats just the only way! Even in the logic of the world, fucking NO! You can like the show or the story for its own sake, but no leftist should ever justify this garbage
I cannot fucking believe I'm having this argument on this website. I'm floored.
The manga/show goes through decent lengths to show the hatred is universal even among common folk through generations of propaganda. Even the eldians in the ghettos are made to hate themselves. Dont get me wrong I get that its contrived anime bs to where the situation even came up to make genocide a viable choice but as fucked as it is that the eldians in marley get fucked I dont see what option paradise had in their absurd situation written for them. The entire world forced their hands after they attempted diplomatic stuff so its either die to racist nazis or live and kill innocent people who prop up the institutes in the crossfire. Shitty options but again I just dont see how anyone can justify an entire race allowing itself to be wiped out because the attackers would have too many civilian casualties.
If the US became the world government and convinced everyone else that we should eradicate Africans or something and they have a way to defend themselves that involves everyone but them dying then more power to them. I cant believe youre making excuses for the aggressors here. If they dont want to die all they have to do is not be racist fucks who want to kill others. The other side doesnt have the luxury of a choice as they were actively going to be exterminated and acted in self defense.
Yes the titan powers would be concerning as fuck but they planned to eradicate the entire island before they knew they had a single shifter there. The existance of the wall titans was mildly concerning to them but at the time it was seen as a non threat and the only reason they wanted to go attack paradise was for resources with a mix of generational hate.
In the lore if a shifter dies the titan is randomly passed along to a "child of ymir" at birth so even if they did that theyd have no idea where it would pop up in next so it wasnt seen as a viable option. They two alternative they played around with was to turn historia in to a baby making factory but that was only estimated to buy them 50 years and then theyd be in the same spot. If they could jsut kill the shifters and itd be over thatd obviously be ideal. The other was zekes euthanasia plan which would have stopped shifters but they still would have been exterminated. Their options were to let the other nations kill them or kill the other nations. Im willing to listen but can someone actually explain for once why, if we assume genocide is truly the only way for this story, that its wrong in their situation? Let me be clear that I do see this through the lens of a work of fiction and my opinions of what they did in AoT might not reflect how Id feel about the real world but with that aside every explanation just boils down to genocide is wrong no matter what so the innocent people should die and the nazis should win because less nazis die and thats good? I just cant wrap my head around thinking its ok for an oppressed minority to be wiped out to protect a society of ethnic cleansing fucks no matter what the numbers of them are. If in some alt history the native Americans eradicated the white setters for trying to kill them and take their land would we really file that under wrong or would it have been justified given the situation.
The manga/show goes through decent lengths to show the hatred is universal even among common folk through generations of propaganda. Even the eldians in the ghettos are made to hate themselves.
This is a direct description of what capitalism/ imperialism does to people in the imperial core and to marginalized people
its either die to racist nazis or live and kill innocent people who prop up the institutes in the crossfire
"there were no innocent japanese civilians killed by the bombs, they all propped up the empire by contributing to production"
if we assume genocide is truly the only way for this story, that its wrong in their situation?
that is a fucking bold assumption, and also Y E S its wrong
This is a bad bad take, and I do not have the fortitude to endure more of it
Can you explain why its such a bad take though? I get that genocide is bad, nobody is actually arguing in favor of it but in the absurd manga they set up a scenario where it was the only option. Other options were tossed around and the explained why they wouldnt work or itd be a big gamble. In the end saying they are wrong for defending themselves seems fucked. My argument isnt that genocide is good or right its that in the manga its justified by their position because they are acting in full self defense. Other innocents dying is a tragedy but again what are they supposed to do. Die and then the manga ends with the facists clinking Champaign glasses together for successfully wiping out a race they didnt like? I get that people think its such a reactionary take but I just cant sit right with a race of people who havent done shit to anyone being wiped out because of their race. I just dont give enough of a shit about a world where its so nornmalized and universal to hate them that there was no opposition to wiping them out from anywhere else.
but I just cant sit right with a race of people who haven't done shit to anyone being wiped out because of their
race.Ruling classyeah me either
Maybe the plan should have been to shatter the fascist hegemony and liberate the world by demilitarizing the nazis
nah, that sounds complicated and difficult, lets just give up because the nazi rulers wouldn't negotiate and blanket the world in nukes, I mean hey! we tried!!
Here’s a solution that completely avoids the omnicide, just do what Armin thought Eren was going to do (do a proof of concept of the Rumbling) so the world gets the message and backs off.
It was something they tossed around but came to the conclusion that itd likley only buy them some time and then theyd have to face a more advanced marley military. It also heavily depended on making sure the founder is passed along by using historia as a baby factory/sacrifice to keep the founder in paradise. If one thing fucked up and she or a spawn dies from normal causes then the founder is randomly given to a newborn and if it isnt one in paradise then they lose their threat and ability to rumble.
Eren just played the uno reverse on the planned genocide to kill literally everyone else on earth. Definitely not a proletarian revolution and is basically the same reactionary nonsense of how settlers conceive of decolonization/national liberation struggles. He even acknowledged himself how it was bad several times
I think the author did a halfway decent job by showing how desperate was wren to find another way, and how much he's in anguish about it. Of course, he could've relied on his friends or something, but noooo genocide it is.
Yes yeagerists are protrayed pretty fashy in the manga and they are but the only mistake made with the rumbling was going 80% and not 100. Yams is just a shitty writer who can’t end a story.
I mean....did Eren not use every titan in Wall Maria, Sina, and Sophia?? that seems pretty 100% to me lmao (i only watch the anime though so :vivian-shrug:)
I think Tripbin meant they didn't kill 100% of people, only 80%, which is of course a mistake apparently
True. Before the ending it seemed like it was going a different route but after the galaxy brain crap it was all pretty pointless.
no because its cartoon villain shit, eren did the rumbling because he couldnt ask his crush out, it doesnt make logical sense but thats the real reason the author gives
the whole premise of the aot world is so far removed from an actual realistic depiction of international politics, nationalism, and race relations, its like a how a liberal who has formed their views based off of CNN and applying interpersonal dynamics to national conflicts sees the world ie. "russia did X because it was angry at China then america also had a plan and did Y...." there are no substantive political insights to be derived from analysing it imo
aot had so much potential to be such an interesting scifi/horror series but then it fucking shat the bed with this lib shit, utterly disappointing
I have only watched the anime, for my sanity I hope it does not end with the message some people here were saying it does. I initially thought the show had some reactionary elements but assumed season 4 was the payoff where I was proved correct, and that these would be repudiated.
Probably should not have spoiled it for myself by opening this thread lol.
I was spoiled on it as well, the anime, despite all the fashy shit, is still a quality watch(upsettingly) even if spoiled
I mean I will definitely continue watching the episodes as they are released and just hope that there is some changes from the source material. But yeah I assumed it was setting up for all the characters from all nations to stop the “fallen hero” and learn some valuable lessons along the way.
Yeah I sure hope so too, it would be neat if they somehow rescued this shitshow
After further thought about this I don't even know how you somehow have the show have a 'pro-rumbling' sentiment, throughout all of season 4 every single main character that is even somewhat sympathetic is anti-rumbling. We see Eren's actions indirectly (Sasha, almost Levi) and directly (Zachary) lead to the death of multiple people who earlier he would say he is 'doing this for'. We have the pro-rumbling characters performing their own 'reign of terror' on the citizens of Paradis. We have a character set up to be kind of a younger version of Eren (Gabi) undergo more moral growth in a few episodes than Eren apparently had throughout the whole series. We even have Eren's lifetime two closest friends be terrorized by him (and thus helping to stop him).
Having the show end on a pro-rumbling ending would retroactively ruin all of this to me, so as such I'm gonna turn my mind into a fortress and assume that every here is pulling an elaborate fast one on me.
The episode that came out today was about the terrible necessity of killing your friends who became nazis
Holy fuck, what an episode
Attempt to :galaxy-brain: some unholy :brainworms: of Avengers: Infinity war/Endgame and Code Geass
Makes everything Grimderp only total war like Warhammer 40k
Actually turns protagonist into literal fucking god king :xi-god-emperor:
spoiler
God emperor dosen't just win with his infinity powers instantly "because he doesn't want to"
only 80 % of the world being slaughtered is treated like a victory
His people get slaughtered by the rest of the world he was (somehow???) forced to spare just as he said they would without his fascism:obama-drone: proving him right.
Genocide is justified by the narrative :surprised-pika:
Everyone said that AoT was like game of thrones so the author pulled a fast one and turned into code geass.
